Deep Dive: Dr. David Locky, Microplastics, MacEwan University

Did you know you eat about a credit card's worth of plastic every week?

Plastic is in almost everything humans produce and consume these days. When plastic isn't reused, recycled, or properly disposed of it begins to break down in the environment. It breaks into tiny microscopic pieces called microplastics which can be found everywhere on the planet. They travel in rain drops, can be blown by the winds and are consumed by small organisms and biomagnify up the food chain. We are eating plastic and we don't even know it.

Want to find ways to stop contributing micro plastics into our natural environments? Consider choosing products with biodegradable packaging like he companies below!

• MarinaTex repurposes unused fish from fish processing facilities to create a compostable plastic alternative!
• Genecis converts food waste into biodegradebale plastics.
• UHaul, ULine, Staples and many more companies have an option for compostable packing peanuts.

 Consider adding one of these filters to your washing machine!

• Filtrol uses a reusable microfibre net to filter out 89% of micro plastics and other biodegradable fibers from your washing machine
• Planet Care has another reusable filter to catch micro plastic fibers coming from your home!
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Want to find your way away from other plastic in your life?
Check out companies like Little plastic Footprint who are making it easy for people to make the change!

Click here to see Dr. David Locky's Website about his research oh and click here for his second website!

Are you interested in his latest journal article that concerns microplastics detected in the waters around Edmonton Alberta? Click Here to read it!

The Aquatic Bisophere Project
The ABP is establishing a conservation Aquarium in the Prairies to help tell the Story of Water.

Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.

Transcript

David Evans: 0:25

Hi, and welcome to today's deep dive episode. Today we're talking to Dr. David Locky from MacEwan University in Edmonton, Alberta, about his research into microplastics. Now, microplastics is a really crazy topic that completely blew me away. I knew that plastic pollution was a big issue. But I really didn't understand the scale of it. Or maybe even the miniscule scale of it. microplastics can be found everywhere in our environment, and we're eating them every day is something that many people are completely unaware of, because they're too small to see. So get ready to learn a lot more about something that might be pretty scary. But it's something that we can work on to fix. So please take what you learn in this podcast, and share with someone so that we can start spreading the word about this issue. So we can start to fix it. Now, I must apologize for the audio quality in this podcast episode. I don't know what happened with my mic. But it's a little iffy at best. So please bear through it. And sit back relax and enjoy this conversation about microplastics with two guys both named David. water we doing? And how can we do better? your one stop shop for everything water related from discussing water to use and the organisms that depend on it for all the global issues that you really never knew all had to do with water. I'm your host, David Evans from the aquatic biosphere project. And I just want to ask you something. What are we doing? How can we do better? Hi, welcome to another deep dive episode. Today we're talking with Dr. David Maki from MacEwan University. We're going to be talking about microplastics and what's happening here in Alberta and what you what you never thought was actually in our waterways. So Dr. David, do you mind just giving a bit of a brief introduction to yourself and what kind of research you conduct?

Dr. David Locky, MacEwan University: 3:21

Absolutely, yeah. So I've been at McEwen for about 10 years now. And I teach freshwater ecology, biostatistics, various field courses and some Junior courses as well. And my research is fairly broad. I'm a wetland ecologist. But you know, so I'm interested in wetland policy, wetland classification, and certainly been contributing to the province that way, but I also work with fish Thai dairy dynamics at lac la Biche with a colleague of mine, Dr. Renault das at McEwen and also with Dr. Matt Ross, in the chemistry department at McEwen on microplastics. My latest venture, so the microplastics is the one that seems to be taking up the most time at this point. You know, we've got a number of different questions that we're answering. So we're, we've been feverishly sampling various types of environments cross the greater Edmonton region, from those that are flowing like the North Saskatchewan River, to constructed wetlands to natural wetlands. Awesome,

David Evans: 4:27

so interesting. And can you just start off I guess, with What are microplastics?

Dr. David Locky, MacEwan University: 4:33

Yeah, they're defined typically as plastics that are less than five millimeters in size. So but I mean, the issue is, is you can't really talk about micro plastics without referring to macro plastics. And that's, of course, anything larger than that. And, you know, so we're living currently in a world that's invaded by plastic and I don't mean, you know, the pop bottles that you see at the side of the road or the candy wrappers that said, you know, this plastic is an amazing material, you know, its role is this washable, chemically stable, versatile, multi purpose material, has really made it difficult to be regulated. And of course, the massive use of it now has been fostered and it's this this translates into a planetary problem. Pollution issue it is it is certainly the new contaminant, if you will. So you've got your microplastics anything about five millimeters microplastics run down to about anywhere from 100 to 1000 nanometers, depending on which group of scientists are classifying it and you know, the science is relatively new. So no one is really, you know, set some firm guidelines on it. But just to give you an idea, nanoplastics, you know, would start at about being something maybe about 100 times smaller than an algal cell. So, my research with with with Matt Ross is interested, we're interested primarily in the microplastics. So five millimeters and down from there, the nano plastics, that's a much larger question requiring much more sophisticated equipment. And to be honest, we're, we're actually not there, there's just so much area to cover with just the microplastics In fact, microplastics as well to that, that's probably a lifetime of science right there.

David Evans: 6:24

nanoplastics, that's hard to even imagine that scale and looking at things that that that scale. So why are microplastics a problem in our environment? Is this a new phenomenon? Or is this something what we're just discovering is something that has always been there?

Dr. David Locky, MacEwan University: 6:41

Yeah, well, you know, you know, plastics unto themselves, have been around, you know, since the 1800s, if you will, in various forums, but it's probably not until the early 1970s, that we identified microplastics as being an issue. So just to give you an idea, since 1975, plastic production has increased over 600% the quantity, so it's huge. And of course, part of the issue is that it's very difficult, as I mentioned earlier to manage this absolutely ubiquitous, you know, thing. I mean, we use it, we love it, right? I mean, you're probably wearing plastic right now, like, I know I am, we're talking into plastic equipment, it's everywhere. So the issue is a management, and, of course, at the number of different levels. But just in a nutshell, there are some very serious potential deleterious effects on biota, and ecosystem function. And because we're part of the ecosystem that affects humans, too.

David Evans: 7:40

Exactly. Yeah. It's, it's so ubiquitous within our own environments, that it's you can't get away from it at this point. It's, it's at least it's very difficult. There are definitely groups that are trying to and I guess, that kind of leads into where do microplastics come from? So is this just pieces of plastic that are breaking off from all of these other plastics? Are they is it just a natural progression of how plastics break down? And, and how do they get into their natural environments? Yeah,

Dr. David Locky, MacEwan University: 8:10

I know, absolutely. You You, You nailed it right there. That's really what it is, is just little pieces of plastic for the most part. So you know, you you can classify them broadly into two categories, one that are manufactured to be microplastics. And those are the beads or microbeads, that we often found in various cosmetics. So it's a currently banned in Canada. But, you know, we have found them certainly in the North Saskatchewan River and various other sites that we've sampled in the Evanston region. And that's probably you know, what it is, is it's, it's a bit of a, an echo of the past. So there's probably products still on the shelf and people's bathrooms that they're using. And so they're getting into the system and various in various ways. And the other one, of course, is what you had first mentioned on that is just basically breakdown of anything from a plastic water bottle to cellophane. And what I think is one of the more ubiquitous issues is microplastic fibers. So in our research here in Edmonton, and I can I can talk about that a little bit later. That is probably the most common contaminant that we found is is the fibers. And in fact, when I'm just even taking miscellaneous samples with my freshwater ecology students out of various habitats in a willy nilly fashion, just for education purposes, we're finding microplastics. So it really is an issue. So these microplastics Now, there's probably no place on earth that they are not found. So if you want to look at the macro plastic issue, if you see a macro plastic, you know that there's a micro plastic there and very likely the nano plastic level. So they're found at both poles right now they're found in the highest mountain regions. recent study in the western US national parks, suggests that up to 1000 tons of plastic are raining down every year. So this of course, it's coming from a number of different ways. It's it's everywhere. So they're found recently, various candy wrappers, I don't know the brand have been found in the Marianas Trench. Which is true yeah. Oh, yes. In the Marianas Trench. plastic bag and candy wrappers, which is just phenomenal. So if they're to that degree, you know, they're they're everywhere. And there's perhaps there's a study that just came out I believe in Pennsylvania and the Pittsburgh region, I think they sampled over 50 different sites, and they were microplastics everywhere and to be truthful and pretty well, every different ecosystem type aquatic ecosystem type that we had sampled here in the greater Edmonton region, we have found evidence of microplastics. So it's in the air, you know, it's in the soil, and it is in the water. And there are a number of means of transport. That mean that this is now a ubiquitous, global contaminant. recent study also pointed to the fact that the concentrations of microplastics are higher in the Arctic than many other places closer to urban areas. And it's very likely due to the twofold the the gyres of plastic that are floating and not only the Pacific Ocean, but the Atlantic Ocean that are breaking down and ending up through currents concentrating in the Arctic. So anywhere you look, you will find it.

David Evans: 11:33

Well, I'm sorry, but that is absolutely terrifying. That they're that ubiquitous. I'm very curious to know like that candy wrapper that was found in the Marianas Trench to find out what kind of candy giant squid are reading these days. It's interesting, because when I think of microplastics, and plastics issues, my mind often goes to the North Pacific gyre and gyres of plastics out in the ocean. And my mind immediately goes through this image of a plastic water bottle being washed up on shore on a beach somewhere, but I don't often think about it in the Arctic or or England, in central Canada and Alberta. So maybe Can you talk a bit about the research that you're doing hearing in Alberta and and how you collect that information? And what can we learn from it?

Dr. David Locky, MacEwan University: 12:19

Absolutely. So Matt, Matt Ross and I, Matt Ross, and I got together probably four or five years ago, on a joint research grant, to look at microplastics. So this was originally Matt's idea came out of his lab. And I basically put the ecological spin on it, as he says, basically a lab chemist, so we developed a program to sample the North Saskatchewan River. And then after that, various types of environments across the landscape in Alberta. So just to give you an example, six landscape types were sampled. So that would be parks, industrial areas, where else urban sort of residential areas, areas along the highway, etc, and also some constructed wetlands in parks within the city. So we ended up with six of these different what we call landscape types, and then sampled about 10 sites in each of those landscape settings. And that's the that's the most recent stuff that we've done with respect to the microplastics. Because the it's the invertebrates that we're really focusing on right now. That so those sites those 60 or so sites that we had had samples, we were able to in, we get our students involved, and they sampled invertebrates for us. So we've, we've also now at the point where we have one group of benthic invertebrates called Scuds or amphipods. There's a couple species here in Alberta that basically live in the mud and the bottom of these ponds, and they're everywhere as well, too. And no surprise, we have found some plastic inside their guts. There's plastic in the sediment, and there's certainly plastic in the water. The most recent research though, that that we've published that just literally came out in January in the journal facets was on our North Saskatchewan research. And so we had one of our great students a Taylor, basically take the lead on this she worked with, I had her for about five courses. And she's a very inquisitive scientist. So we got her on this project. And she did a lot of the sampling and writing and lab analysis. She's the lead on that paper, and we like to see our students getting published. So when that when they're when we sampled, the nurses catch one river, more or less from Devin all the way down to Fort Saskatchewan. So various different locations. Using you know, basically we use plankton nets in order to sample them and use a flow meter and then you can calculate the rate per cubic meter of microplastics. So the good news is that it's relatively low concentration. But the bad news is they're in every sample. So every sample included anywhere from I think, was 4.6 to about 88.3 particles per cubic meter. And the average is about 26. And a focus of that particular research was to try to understand The sewage treatment plants, so for instance, gold bar and they got the station that's down stream from that we're actually concentrating in their outflows any microplastics, because as we know, microplastics are being ingested by humans and also just go down into the sewers. And we were, you know, thankfully we didn't, we didn't actually notice any difference above or below the actual outflows of the sewage treatment plants. So those plastics very likely are being retained in the the bio solids that are used as a organic matter, sort of fertilizer. So I can't really say that for sure. But I do know that from other research that the biosolids, basically human waste uses compost on farmer's fields that is actually spread are probably going to be a source of microplastics, because there's certainly not a huge amount coming through the outflow. Interestingly, too, we found four different types of plastic, the microbeads fragments, film and the fibers. And of those, the fiber were definitely the most dominant. So Matt's got some sophisticated equipment, Raman microscopy, Matic microscopy that he used with the student with Taylor, and we were able to determine that it was polyethylene, or polypropylene, or the common plastic fragments that were found. So they are here a David and they're, they're everywhere. And we're hoping to get a, you know, a little bit more information, the the landscape scale, research, I think, will be really telling because, you know, you should be able to find different plastics in different settings. So believe it or not, tire wear is considered microplastic. And we suspect just, you know, from our preliminary research in those particular wetlands, and stormwater ponds that are adjacent to the Anthony henday, through Edmonton, are likely dominated by tire wear. So that research is pretty well, a groundbreaking from the perspective I as far as I know, we're the first one to publish your paper in Alberta. I do know that there's a research group now that's working through Nate with a industrial partner, and they have a fairly large budget, and they will be doing some work in the North Saskatchewan and not now I have a couple of other research grant proposals out right now, as well, too, that we're, we're hoping to find out from an in May, you know, to further our work. So it's new, it's very exciting. And from our from our perspective of we'd love the fact that we can get so many students involved, we've had probably 15 students involved in our research.

David Evans: 18:08

I love that idea. You're involving students and really getting them into the ground floor of the new study of microplastics that are ubiquitous, it's great to hear that there is work being done on the ground here. And and it's not just being focused on the ocean as I would have done.

Dr. David Locky, MacEwan University: 18:23

Yeah, well, they that the ocean is the low hanging fruit. You know, certainly there's more ocean than freshwater. But arguably, the freshwater may be, you know, somewhat more important from the perspective of humans, right? Because we're, you know, we live near near freshwater. Yeah, I'm not heard of the stat though, David. But some recent research came out in Europe and Australia and verified at Simon Fraser University for Canada, that humans are consuming about the quantity that wait about about five grams, or the weight of a credit card per week in plastic. So depending on what your diet is to eating a better credit card, any card a week, it's absolutely astonishing. That's 52 credit cards per year. So yeah, and of course, these are quite small. And you know, for instance, they found so for instance, in the average bottle of beer, there may be three or four particles. Every time you crack the top heavy water bottle, there are shards that will go in there that are considered microplastics. And in particular, shellfish have a high concentration because they are filter feeders, though this seems to be a place where so depth appear again, it really depends on what your diet is, and where you're getting your water from. That But anyway, it's and of course, recent research to has confirmed that it's in our feces search team. So that is actually mean. Investigating microplastics is actually looking at sewage outflows and things like that in order to similar to what they're doing with COVID as well. You know, you can, can you sue for all kinds of interesting scientific things.

David Evans: 20:07

It's a good way of testing a population without having to test people individually.

Dr. David Locky, MacEwan University: 20:12

Indeed, yeah, indeed.

David Evans: 20:15

I'm sorry, I'm still hung up on the credit card thing.

Dr. David Locky, MacEwan University: 20:19

Yeah. Absolutely, you know, you can you can you can easily Google that and find the source. But it is astonishing. I have a hard time believing that too. You know, and if this is the stuff that's relatively easily measurable, the nanoplastics is the next topic. How much of that is within?

David Evans: 20:37

At this point? Has there been much research to identify if there's any human health risks associated with this?

Dr. David Locky, MacEwan University: 20:44

The primary research has concentrated on organisms, you know, smaller organisms than humans in here again, so everything from you know, plankton, and higher invertebrates, you know, the the, what we would call bugs, and often in aquatic environments, that's where the much of the research has been done. And certainly those are issues. So the the toxicity or let's just say, the deleterious effects of microplastics on these smaller organisms is twofold. So the first is, is that they double as a food source with very little nutrition. And you could also extrapolate that up to, for instance, whales, for instance, sperm whales, and various others filter feeders eating a lot of plastic, the microplastics Dr. Jennifer lavers, who is a McEwen grad is doing groundbreaking breaking rich work in the South Pacific. And she has shown shorebird communities almost on the verge of collapse, because the young are being fed plastics by the parents, and of course, the parents are eating plastics, too. So that's the macro level. So poor nutrition, that's not necessarily an issue for most humans. It's the microplastics which are the issue. So, but anyways, the second aspect, the deleterious aspect of the microplastic and probably all plastics to some degree is the fact that they toxins can not only inherent in the plastic composition itself or within the environment, various metals and such, can actually stick basically adsorb to the outside of the plastic and the organism will eat these and then of course, it will bio magnify up the food chain. So perhaps, you know, algae will filter feed some of this stuff, and then invertebrates will eat those larger invertebrates. And then of course, perhaps fish, and then pi Severus, birds perhaps will eat those, and then so on. And so you get biomagnification, bioaccumulation. And then biomagnification of toxins that you would not normally have have found a conduit through the food chain. So that is a particular concern. We still don't know very much about it. But this is the reason why we're looking at the invertebrates right now just to get a handle. So the invertebrates we've collected for our from about three different trophic levels and about 10 different type of taxa. And we hope to be able to follow it up through you know, because some invertebrates feed on others to see if it's it's it's concentrating at least at the spine scale, in the Evanston region. So that's the issue, the the, the nanoplastics. Those, those basically crossed cellular membranes in the effects cell function. So plastics can reside theoretically in every human tissue. And I think Recent research has shown, including a newborn babies, that's

David Evans: 23:39

Wow. biomagnification in bioaccumulation, just looking at the toxicology of different toxins in the environment, and this takes us all the way back to the Silent Spring and Rachel Carson and those types of environmental contaminants. And now we're thinking of it an environmental contaminant, not so much as toxic chemical, but more as a particle that can absorb those toxic chemicals and act as a courier of them throughout that ecosystem chain is Yeah, that's scary.

Dr. David Locky, MacEwan University: 24:08

Yeah, it is. It is. It absolutely is something of concern. And I there's lots of research going on right now. So this is this is a positive thing. But you know, there's, it's it's very difficult to get away from because the because of the ubiquitousness, something else I should point out too, is there's been plenty of research, particularly coming out of Northwestern Europe and Scandinavia that are demonstrating the deleterious of well the significant amounts of microplastics in the air in within buildings. So for instance, a big source of them are carpeting. So carpeting is is a huge issue of I mean, because those fragments are breaking off, and there's lots of abrasion occurring all the time. And so these fragments are around and there's and there's, you know, some fairly large numbers depending on the type of environment that you're in, where you're actually breathing it in. So, you're reading it, you're drinking it, and you're breathing it in and I don't want to scare people per se. I mean, you know that the human body and you know, various other organism bodies are fairly robust and we can, you know, we're taking in toxins all the time and we can handle them, but at what point, you know, is it is it is it very deleterious because it's here again is sort of that new pollutant, if you will. And, and because it's so small and very difficult to to assess, you know, it is an issue, something to think about,

David Evans: 25:34

definitely. And something to really think about too, as within our own purchasing, as we were saying before, plastic is everywhere, plastic is in almost everything that we buy. I'm a little curious about your saying the fibers are one of the biggest villains of the day are fibers mostly coming from carpeting, or fabrics, do we know where the largest sources are?

Dr. David Locky, MacEwan University: 25:55

Well, you can, you can probably, you know, just work backwards on the type of plastic that you that you find. But you know, to be honest, a lot of it is from the clothing. So you know that it's just such an amazing if you think about it, and it's amazing material that can be used and modified a number of different ways. And, and it's in most of our clothing and in some form, right, even if it's just the threat or something like that. And of course, a very high proportion of all our clothing is is 100% synthetic, which of course is plastic. So you know, when you're washing a big source of them is actually washing machines. So washington dc washing machines can can concentrate the amount of plastic in the environment, because it's basically going out the drain. And Recent research has even shown that the gentle wash, which uses more water than just a regular wash, can actually highly inflate the number of microplastics that are going out your drain. So you can now purchase filters for your washing machine to capture all the microplastics or a good proportion of them. But I think they're pretty expensive. There's something like, you know, $250. So not a lot of households will actually want to do that until maybe the price comes down or To be honest, until manufacturers start integrating these things in. So look at it this way. I think a recent stat I came across the US that clothing industry produces something like 42 million tons of synthetic fibers per year, and that's metric tons. So 80% of those 80% of those are for polyester garments. So you know, our lovely fleeces that we love to wear, you know, our Sherpas. I love it too. But really, I mean, it's just wash, a washing this stuff. And you know, so washing synthetic items in your washing machine can yield up to something like 6 million microfibers per wash. So that's huge. That's huge. And another almost another million can be added. If you're using you know, the gentle cycle, which uses more water, which is an IT, I found it very interesting. So yeah, so there you go. There's it is. So unless you can capture it from your washing machine, there's I mean, we're really contributing to this in a big way. And here again, most most people do not know this, this this issue.

David Evans: 28:27

Yeah, it seems like it should be a fairly simple issue. But then we're not even talking about nanoplastics at this point where we're only at the micro. So this could be a much larger issue on that scale. And I hate to ask this question, but is this something that we can clean up? And how long did the does it take for these these particles to really break down is this hundreds of years 1000s of years next week?

Dr. David Locky, MacEwan University: 28:51

I think that the Well, here again, we know they're ubiquitous. And because there's so many different conditions, you know, whether it's cold, whether it's hot, whether there's water, water, or some other solvent type of solvent or whether there is some kind of abrasion abrasion happening, that will depend that will sort of be those will be factors, and how long the microplastics will last in the environment. So I would have to say that, you know, for several generations, or perhaps hundreds of generations, plastics will be here. Even if you stopped producing plastic right now, the amount that is out there is so significant that, you know, hate to be too pessimistic, but it is something that we will have to deal with for the very foreseeable future. I don't know if it will ever go away. I mean, it's it's very difficult to sort of think about I think it's almost a geological scale question. So geological scale is for instance, like in the scale of looking at glaciation and things like that. But here it's a little bit out of my wheelhouse. I really can't I don't have any numbers to support that but I just know that you know, the so ubiquitous and they can be stored for a long time and sediments and then be reintroduced through other different through other activities. Yeah, so what can we do about this? This is that's a really good question. I think that For instance, as you mentioned, we can make some smart consumer choices, if you will, it's a more natural product, so Cotton's and wools, and things like that. But even those have environmental costs and issues. And, in fact, a lot of the fibers we found in the North Saskatchewan River were cotton. So they don't, they don't, I'm not sure how they compare to plastic with respect to some of the things I'd mentioned, but they're still up a fiber of some sort. So, you know, remember those candy wrappers in the Marianas Trench? Well, let's make sure that we put ours in the garbage is one thing, because I do know that, for instance, in some of the park ponds that we sampled, there were quite a few of the fragments, which would, or films which are coming from candy wrappers, those kinds of things. So you know, try to manage it as much as as possible. With respect to your washing machine, perhaps that's something to consider. And, of course, single use plastics, and the lack of recycling opportunities for other plastics is a problem. So just look around your office office there, David, every all the plastic things, what will what will, where will they be 100 years from now? Right, because those products probably won't last that long. The ultimate solution really remains with manufacturers and government. I think in order to get a handle on this, there has to be some kind of responsibility. But here again, because it's such a ubiquitous and useful material that can be made into literally anything. It is just it's rampant. It's it's everywhere. So it's a it's a it's a blessing, and it's a curse, if you will.

David Evans: 32:00

Yeah, it's a classic case of tragedy of the commons, where everyone is, is so excited to take part in it. But we all suffer because of it, until we start to turn realize those those costs.

Dr. David Locky, MacEwan University: 32:13

Yeah, I mean, for instance, yeah. So for instance, you know, the city of Edmonton is changing its recycling program now, which is good, and it's basically creating more control on there. And which means more work for us with and that's fine, it increases our responsibility as it should be, we'd like to see the responsibility translated higher up as well, too. So at the manufacturers level, so even just the simple things like the bubble pack for screws, and that, you know, which is pretty or batteries, of course, being the classic example of, you know, the single use plastics that will be here forever. And here, again, you know, we are finding out now that, you know, recent research has also pointed out that some of these plastics can actually, the microplastics can degrade into smaller fractions far more quickly than we had thought, due to the combination of things like heat, cold, water, and of course, abrasion. So we're learning a little bit more about that is that there, it may be a little bit faster than we had thought I don't have any numbers here. But that's, that is an issue. You know, you may have heard that there was a, I believe a high school student who recently came up with this very unique method of using oil and feral fluids, that would basically attract microplastics based on this valence, so they kind of like a magnet. But here again, at the at the wide scale that's difficult. Other research now is unique using these things called nano coils, which are tiny reactors, and they can actually break down they can trigger microplastic breakdown at an accelerated rate, at least at the laboratory level. So that might be something and then it may be easier. So I'm not sure what you would do after that. Apparently, coastal areas may be easier to address than some of the gyres where they were they've done some research, but so people are thinking about it. You know, there's also some municipalities are putting in these nets on sewage out, not sewage outflows. But basically stormwater outflows in cities in order to collect the larger particles, wrappers, cups, bottles, and then they can manage it that way. So slowly, but surely, you know, they're there. There's promise of this being addressed. But to what degree you know, it will take some time and organization and, you know, and will from the government, I think to to help us with this.

David Evans: 34:38

Yeah, yeah, exactly. For those who listen to this episode, and get so jazzed up about, about microplastics, and preventing them getting out into the environment, other than just making own choices towards what you're purchasing and things around your washing machine, and potentially dishwasher and things like that, what would you recommend to help incentivize large corporations and governments to be able to make a change for this? Yeah,

Dr. David Locky, MacEwan University: 35:06

I think people power is the answer there. So in order to, you know, get some traction on this when more people need to be aware of the issue, and you know, so talk to your friends, talk to your parents and other relatives. It was and, and and, you know, let them know about this issue. And I think that's where, you know, eventually it could lead to voting for that particular candidate that will, you know, support some policy. I mean, we already have the reduction or, or basically the banning of the microbeads. So this is this is positive. So the Canadian government, you know, has at least acknowledge this, to the degree but that's, that's pretty low hanging fruit. I think. The other question is much larger. So let's just start with education, let's integrate the research that we're all doing, to try to inform us as well, too. And then and hopefully, at some point, it will gain traction at a higher level.

David Evans: 36:02

Perfect. Well, I would just like to thank you so much, David, for coming onto the show. And for taking part it's, it's I've learned so much, I'm, I'm really blown away at the scale of this issue. And, and, and how, quite frankly, I've been a little ignorant to it. So I thank you for informing me about this issue. And, and I think a lot of listeners will have their eyes opened quite a bit by this, I'm a little curious about your own background, and how you got to where you are now. So if you do mind, just touching on that,

Dr. David Locky, MacEwan University: 36:34

I took the long way to get to where I am. I started out with an auto mechanic school at a high school. And, you know, I still love cars have that and tinker with them and that but I quickly switched to fish and wildlife technician diploma program. And that sort of got me my start in ecology. I worked for the Ministry of natural resources and fisheries research as a technician for a year. And then you know, back in the 80s, we had a little bit of a not a depression, but certainly a blip with the the economy. So I ended up working in a factory for 10 years. And you know, nothing focuses, yeah, nothing focuses on what you want to do. When you're doing what you don't want to do. So, anyway, yeah, I managed, I was able to apply to university as a mature student, I wanted to be a high school teacher, and I volunteered. And that didn't suit me. But I was really enamored with a prof at the University of Waterloo and his work on wetlands. And so I eventually did my masters on birds and wetlands at the University of Waterloo, after I did my undergrad in, in physical geography. And then I moved out here to do my PhD with Dr. Suzanne Bailey, at the University of Alberta. Some may know that she is the wife of the recently departed, Dr. David Schindler, who was, you know, a real role both Suzanne and Dave were real role models to all of us in the lab, so and really influenced me, I would say, so if you got Suzanne, you got day. And if you got Dave, you got Suzanne, and they were a powerhouse together. So that basically springboarded me into my career, I was in environmental consulting for several years working in oil sands and various pipelines, as well too. And then I joined. I just thought, Well, that was okay. But I wanted to be a little bit more research focus. So then I joined Athabaskan university as a director researcher at one of their programs, and was in that position for a couple years and then wanted to do a little more teaching. And so the McEwen opportunity came up, you know, 10 or so years ago, and I haven't looked back, I very much enjoy my, my position at you know, at MacEwan University. So that's sort of the I, you know, it took me 21 years to pay off my undergrad loan, I just paid it off a couple years ago. And I tell that to students who complained, but I look at it as a privilege. And I I'm I'm eternally grateful that I was able to, you know, start my undergrad at age 30. And, and move on with things because it's been a really rewarding careers.

David Evans: 39:25

That's a fantastic story. And so is that the true inspiration to everyone who's struggling with student debt right now? It's possible to get through, but yeah, it. That's a fantastic story. And yeah, thank you. Thank you so much for taking the time to speak with me today. I really enjoyed our conversation. I've learned a lot. And yeah, I'm so excited to see what your you and your, your team do next. Where can where can listeners find out more about the work that

Dr. David Locky, MacEwan University: 39:53

you're doing? Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, both Dr. Ross, Matt Ross and I have web pages and such at the at the university. But you know, when they you know, I guess with our publish papers and things like that, they get a little bit of press, that's probably the best thing to do. Or, hey, you don't give us an email if you're interested in our research.

David Evans: 40:12

Awesome. Well, thank you so much, again for speaking with me, and I'll leave a link to your web pages. in the show notes that people can find them. And yeah, thank you so much. And let's stop microplastics You bet.

Dr. David Locky, MacEwan University: 40:26

Thanks again to Dave, take care.

David Evans: 40:27

Thank you for tuning in to today's deep dive episode with David Locky, all about microplastics. And once again, I'm so sorry about the audio quality, I have no idea what happened. Apparently my microphone just decided it wasn't going to work today, it would just be sitting there useless. If you want to learn more about microplastics and the research that David Locky is doing, I'll leave links to his website in the show notes. And I'll also leave links to many other websites that are looking into microplastics in our world, and ways that you can get involved. I'm the host and producer, David Evans. And I would just like to thank the rest of the team from the aquatic biosphere project, specifically to Paula Polman, Sophie Cervera, and Anna bettini. Thanks for all of your help to learn more about the aquatic biosphere project and what we're doing here in Alberta telling the story of water. Check us out at aquaticbiosphere.ca. And if you have any questions or comments about the show, we'd love to hear them. Email us at conservation@aquaticbiosphere.org. Please don't forget to like, subscribe and leave us a review. It really helps us out. We'll be switching our podcast release schedule to every second week now. But don't worry. Next episode is going to be fantastic. If you follow us on social media, you'll have seen posts about locusts and deserts A while ago. And that's our next focus. We're taking on desert locusts how plagues of these creatures can completely devastate entire continents of crops. And how does this have anything to do with water? Well, let's just say you need some strange weather, some strange rain to bring a lot of pain to a lot of people. We'll be examining the link between water and plagues of desert locusts of biblical proportions. Tune in you won't want to miss it. Thanks and it's been a splash