Water We Doing?

Deep Dive: Bourton Scott and Ally Stocks, Emerald Sea Protection Society

March 25, 2021 David Evans / Bourton Scott, Ally Stocks Season 1 Episode 2
Water We Doing?
Deep Dive: Bourton Scott and Ally Stocks, Emerald Sea Protection Society
Show Notes Transcript

It's estimated that we lose 640,000 tonnes of fishing gear every year in our oceans. This gear continues to kill fish and other marine organisms and pollutes our marine environment with plastic. What are we doing about it?

In this episode we speak with Joel Baziuk the Deputy Director of the Global Ghost Gear Initiative (GGGI) and Bourton Scott and Ally Stocks from the Emerald Sea Protection Society. Joel helps to coordinate global efforts to improve fishing gear to decrease the risks of it being lost at sea and to help coordinate global cleanup efforts. Bourton and Ally are part of a team that has partnered with the GGGI to help cleanup the waters around Vancouver Island.

We talk about what's currently being done, what can be done in the future, how to get involved and what can be made from recycled nets pulled from the sea!

For more information about the Global Ghost Gear Initiative, what they are working on and how you can get involved with their ghost gear reporting app for your phone Click Here.

For more information about the Emerald Sea Protection Society and the nets they are removing off the coast of Vancouver Island Click Here.

Check out the Following Brands for cool products made from Ghost Gear!

For more information about the Aquatic Biosphere Project and what we are doing to tell the story of water Click Here.

The Aquatic Bisophere Project
The ABP is establishing a conservation Aquarium in the Prairies to help tell the Story of Water.

Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.

David Evans:

On today's deep dive episode, I had the opportunity to speak with the Emerald sea protection society about the work that they're actually doing to clean up ghost gear abandoned, lost and damaged fishing gear that is out around the coast of Vancouver Island allien Burton do awesome work and their whole organization is really cool. So sit back, relax and get ready to learn a little bit about goes fishing with the Emerald sea protection society. Why water we doing? And how can we do better? your one stop shop for everything water related from discussing water to use and the organisms that depend on it. For all the global issues you really never knew all had to do with water. I'm your host, David Evans from the aquatic biosphere project. And I just want to ask you something. What are we doing? How can we do better? Hi, and I'd like to welcome the next guests on the show. Could you guys both introduce yourselves and explain a little bit about what you do with the Emerald sea protection society?

Bourton Scott, Emerald Sea Protection Soceity:

Sure, I'll go first. My name is Bourton Scott. I'm one of the founding members of the organization. I'm a commercial diver, as well as a field person for for this project.

Ally Stocks, Emerald Sea Protection Society:

And I'm Ally stocks. I'm a marine scientist. And I started helping out with Emerald sea maybe about four years ago, and I'm one of the members of the board of directors.

David Evans:

Awesome. Thanks Ally and Bourton for joining in. So today we're gonna chat a little bit about ghost nets and ghost gear and what the Emerald sea protection society is doing off the coast of Vancouver Island. Can you explain what is a ghost net? What makes a net a ghost net?

Bourton Scott, Emerald Sea Protection Soceity:

Sure, I can answer that. And a ghost that is any net that's lost or abandoned at sea or on land that makes its way into the sea, either fishing or end of life. So at storage or something along those those lines. A ghost net will get lost in an area where it'll affect the the natural marine environment, continuing to fish and feeding itself over years, causing quite significant damage to the local environments. Quite a big problem from fishing.

David Evans:

So they just are just like left out to see are they left out to see like intentionally? Are these just misplaced nets? Or is it more like ocean currents? Take them away? And it's just Is this a big problem with nets? Are there other things too, that that are causing issues?

Ally Stocks, Emerald Sea Protection Society:

Yeah, I'll jump in on that one. It sort of depends on where you are in the world. Here in British Columbia. We generally speaking do not have people intentionally discarding nets nets are worth 10s to hundreds of 1000s of dollars. And they're Yeah, very important to to fishermen's livelihoods. So no one's you know, just dumping their their nets at sea. So usually what happens is a net can get snagged either on something under the water. You can have bad weather that leads to losing a net or losing sort of a set net. Or you could have gear interaction, so something getting caught on another piece of gear. There's a number of reasons why they might get lost. But generally speaking here it's it's definitely not intentional.

David Evans:

Okay, yeah. So it they're, these nets do cost a lot of money.

Ally Stocks, Emerald Sea Protection Society:

Yeah, yeah. And you're asking to so it's not just nets, we tend to think about nets as one of the most dangerous forms of ghost gear one of the most deadly or the type that's most likely to sort of keep having an impact. But there's plenty of other types of gear that get lost like crab traps, lobster traps, more on the east coast. So the type of gear where you've got sort of a something on the bottom, and then a line attached to a float at the top, if you lose that float, and then the trap at the bottom is just going to continue to kind of sit there for who knows how long.

David Evans:

All right, so if I understand correctly, and I have no, I have no background in marine fishing whatsoever. But if I understand correctly, most of the gear out there, you unless it has a GPS signal, you rely basically on a visual. If you can see a buoy, then you know where that gear is.

Ally Stocks, Emerald Sea Protection Society:

Yeah, that's pretty fair to say. Yeah, it varies based on the the different fisheries. And usually people are pretty good about about knowing where they've set their gear.

David Evans:

Yeah, for cost that much money.

Ally Stocks, Emerald Sea Protection Society:

Yeah, exactly. And getting back there to retrieve it. But yeah, if you lose, if you can't see it, and if it's gone too far from from where you would have initially set it, then yeah, it's it's almost impossible to find it.

David Evans:

It's a big old see out there. How big of a problem is this? Like? How much would a typical Fisher lose in a year? And or is it? Is it more of an issue with certain types of gear?

Ally Stocks, Emerald Sea Protection Society:

That is an awesome question. And the research is still being done on that. And so we the Department of Fisheries and Oceans here in Canada has just started collecting that information. So it's a tricky thing. Where you are a fisherman might not necessarily want to declare that they've lost this year, because of the negative implication. So even the even the term ghost gear or ghost net has negative connotations for the fishing industry. And in no way do we want to vilify these people whose livelihood depends on the sea. So that's why often in in scientific literature, you'll see the term abandoned, lost or discarded fishing gear. So a ltf g

David Evans:

is the Well, that's a mouthful.

Ally Stocks, Emerald Sea Protection Society:

So yeah, people aren't, aren't into obviously, like we've said, they're not intentionally losing it. But the data is pretty scarce, about how often people are losing it, where there might be gear hotspots. And, and again, this might be different based on the the fishery type, you know, you're more or less likely to lose probably a small crab pot, then you might, you know, a gigantic same net. But, you know, these fisheries have been operating here for hundreds of years. You know, technology has improved. So, in recent years losing gear is is less common than it might have been, say 50 years ago. But this is something that we're actively tackling right now. And it's it's something that I as a scientist I'm super interested in because if we can understand how much gear we think is out there based on you know, loss rates or, or likely places of year lots, that puts us in a in a better position to actually go and retrieve it and start cleaning it up.

David Evans:

Yeah, totally, I guess. So it is it is a big problem. But it's, it's maybe becoming less of a problem as as fishing gear improves. So I guess this is kind of where, where your team comes in. So what can be done? How do you go about even starting to know where to look for these? And how to how to begin to clean up these abandoned gear?

Bourton Scott, Emerald Sea Protection Soceity:

Yeah, there's definitely a few approaches that we're we're trying to suss out at the point at this point. The most successful that we found so far is word of mouth like actually talking and working with fishing to identify areas where there is potential gear loss or legacy gear loss from the past. In addition to that, there is some outside of the fishing industry where we like DFO and in divers, for example, who have identified gear in other areas, but there's it's pretty tough to actually pinpoint hotspots right now. So definitely trying to work better.

Ally Stocks, Emerald Sea Protection Society:

Yeah, there's some some technologies that are being piloted, like sidescan sonar so literally scanning the ocean floor to try and see if there's a gear and it's it's been improving over over the past few years. But generally speaking, it's it's fairly costly to run these these scanners and not necessarily the easiest to actually identify gear that's under the water. Another tool that we use is remote operated cameras, so something that you can operate from onshore and sort of survey under the water using but even though you kind of Yeah, yeah, but even then you kind of want to have a general sense of, of the, the likelihood of a piece of gear being in that area, because you're not necessarily going to go out and just video, you know, our entire expansive coastline.

David Evans:

What do you mean, we don't have time for that, we don't have enough money to go and do that,

Ally Stocks, Emerald Sea Protection Society:

that's what we would do. If the if there was all the money in the world, we'd be out there just just puttering all day long.

David Evans:

I Oh, I should have started with it. I'm sorry. But I just I'm so excited to have you guys on as guests, because I think the work that you guys do is incredible. Just having an organization that is, is out there actively trying to clean up and, and putting in a lot of time and effort and money to be able to have these positive impacts that may not be realized by people just onshore, that there are these abandoned fishing gear that are still still out there and and continue to fish without our knowledge. So I'm so excited to be able to chat with you guys about this. And thanks for everything you guys are doing. Thanks for those kind words. It sounds like it's such a it's such a cool experience to be able to go out and and be part of one of these expeditions that you guys go on finding all this gear, could you guys kind of walk me through what one of these trips out to see would be like to be able to go and reclaim some of this gear and maybe share a story of one of the weirdest pieces of gear that you've ever pulled up?

Unknown:

Oh, for sure.

Bourton Scott, Emerald Sea Protection Soceity:

It definitely takes a pretty significant effort just organizing people in equipment alone takes quite a bit of time. All of these sites that we do that aren't dock cleanups are are offshore. So you're looking at a you know, one to several hour boat ride out to site. And then depending and say conditions, whether you actually get in the water and do recovery, it's kind of based on all that stuff. One of the ones that we we've been lucky enough to go back to is is just on the border of BC in the United States, off of this island called Pender island in the Gulf islands, just just next to Victoria. And that if your website is quite an interesting one, because it's it's been an ongoing project by several organizations. The one particular net is just one saying that that was lost, estimated around, I think was the 80s, where it was found initially by some divers. Wow, it's taken the better part of a five year sort of effort by three different groups to go back and clean up that one particular net, just because it's, it's deep, and the conditions are very challenging. So just being part of that cleanup and the effort to tackle that one, that one specific site was a bit of an eye opener for me anyway to to kind of you know, forge forward and in continued to try and find places like that that need to be restored back to their their natural environment.

David Evans:

Wow, it can take up to Wow, five years for one net? Is it just such a huge net? Or are you saying the conditions were just or just make it really difficult to pull it up? Well, each

Bourton Scott, Emerald Sea Protection Soceity:

one of those projects is a one or two days sort of on site, significant effort, sort of thing. So our part initially was actually more of a training position where we're we're learning how to go out and and recover net safely and effectively. So we were we were kind of piggybacking on another crew and working with the Triple G is a collaborative collaborative effort to to get an A Canadian effort started. So kind of our initial push into it. And then we've gone back several other times to to remove other just remaining pieces of the net. But that again, that particular sites almost like an average depth of 80 feet, so we don't we don't have a whole lot of time on the bottom to do much work. So even even finding the pieces of net that are left, which are some some pretty significant pieces, but for the most part, it's it's been mostly cleaned up has been a bit of a challenge. But that particular site is getting close to completely finished. So kind of that last little push, you know,

David Evans:

totally, totally.

Ally Stocks, Emerald Sea Protection Society:

Yeah. And maybe for a bit more of this sort of what logistically does a day look like? Burton lives this every day as a commercial diver, but it's maybe people don't realize the water in BC is is pretty cold. Usually around, you know, eight degrees Celsius at its warmest. So,

David Evans:

as chilly enough,

Ally Stocks, Emerald Sea Protection Society:

yeah, it's so we're in full, you know, dry suits, you got a ton of equipment and we and you know, we have to have a service crew that is ensuring safety for all the divers that are underwater, we need at least two divers usually more. And ideally, you know, having actual communications between the divers and the surface. So some pretty neat technology and then depending on the the size of the equipment that we're trying to pull up so so for example, this same net which you can imagine like the full size saying that is like a football fields like they're, they're massive. Yeah, so So it's, you know, you can't just be out there in a canoe, right. So you also need a boat and and equipment to to actually pull that net out of the water. So the divers themselves can use controlled ways to do it under the water or lift the net from under the water. But then, you know, once you have more of a force of gravity, you need the right equipment topside to actually remove that gear. So there's some pretty incredible imagery from some of the the projects all over the world of these just full like net balls, like these things, the size of houses of of gear that's accumulated and you really need impressive, you know, full on industrial equipment or, like machinery. It's actually out on the water.

David Evans:

Yeah, yeah, that's incredible. I've seen some of those images of those giant balls of nets. And it's, it's hard to get a sense of scale on them. They're just so large.

Ally Stocks, Emerald Sea Protection Society:

Yeah. So So I mean, we haven't found anything like that yet. But I have spoken with fishermen, you know, of rumors of places like that on our coasts. So it's it's certainly on the to do list.

David Evans:

Yeah, yeah. That's a that's a big, big task when you come up on one of those, I'm sure. Absolutely. Absolutely. So could you tell me a little bit about the Emerald sea protection society and how it got started, how it got formed? And what's next for the society?

Bourton Scott, Emerald Sea Protection Soceity:

Yeah, sure. So the idea for going out and tackling the last fishing gear on the BC coast came from me just seeing it at work. Diving for work, I was even on job sites that weren't even related to fishing, I would see fishing gear or marine debris in general. So I started talking with a few friends and we kind of formed together to, to tackle the problem as we could and that's where Emerald C was started about four or five years ago. Six years I don't even know anymore. But yeah, so it started with that and fishing gear was a an obvious sort of target because as I see it anyway, in BC, our gear loss are so minimal now because of changes in technology and, and effort from fishermen and regulation that the problem, at least within the confines seas, like the Salish Sea, behind Vancouver Island, it's it's a solvable issue, where we can clean up legacy fishing gear and tackle the gear that's lost yearly. With a with a, you know, significant effort, obviously, but it's one benchmarks that could potentially be be reached. So over that period of time, we've we've been building towards that goal, small initially and in growing kind of every year, and hopefully get to the point where we do have more than one sort of mobile crew to go out and recover gear diving or otherwise, and just be a part of that. That solution and BC.

David Evans:

That's awesome. That's so cool. If I was out on the coast, I would definitely be very intrigued to be involved with all of this, this gear that is out there, and from the gear that you guys have have been able to, to remove. Is there any possibility for it to have a second life? Or is there any usefulness to it typically, or is this mostly being converted to like landfill or something at that point?

Ally Stocks, Emerald Sea Protection Society:

It depends on the type of net. There are some really amazing businesses that are creating, you know, skateboards, sunglasses, bathing suits, you name it out. Oh, yeah. Last fishing gear, you got to look up burrito. And so yeah, so that's certainly where we want to get to right now we don't necessarily have the supply of nets to be able to go into processing and creating, you know, bracelets or whatever it is. For now, the nets that we've retrieved, we've used some for display purposes, we've sent them to other people who are, you know, making our projects or bracelets, one of the most recent ones, she wants to make dog collars out of the nets. But in short, it depends on the type of fiber of the net. So most of them are made with a pretty hardy nylon that's actually very recyclable. But the the flip side to that is having a net that's been under the water for 50 years, like the same net off appender we were talking about, that's a pretty nasty net. So it takes quite a bit of work to actually clean it. There is a net recycling facility in stevenston. So just south of Vancouver. And there are a few, you know, pilot projects across the coast to introduce net collection areas or recycling sort of facilities. So we're excited to see some of those come online in the next five years or so. But yeah, it's, it's the ultimate goal is is for these to not end up, you know, just sitting in a landfill. So we do our best to make sure that they they have a new life wherever possible,

David Evans:

turning it into a skateboard. That's, that's crazy. I'm gonna have to look all of those up. Yeah. And not to add them to the show notes. So people can try to buy their next skateboard from an old abandoned fishing that that's very, very cool. So that kind of leads me into the next question. So I'm in Alberta, I mean, landlocked province in Canada, what would be your advice for people who may be in landlocked provinces? Or maybe not even landlocked provinces in anywhere within Canada? How can we help what would be your recommendation?

Ally Stocks, Emerald Sea Protection Society:

I can jump in, we are so different. It's so funny, I think, you know, people love being hands on. And beach cleanups are a way that people can get involved, it might not always be fishing here. But that's genuinely a way where you can, you know, feel like you're physically doing something to remove marine debris. So I always want to plug those in terms of supporting us as Emerald, see, you know, we always accept financial donations, and that will literally lead to us going out and pulling that out of the water. If you are extra keen, you know, reach out and there might be volunteer opportunities with the organization, there's always stuff that can be done behind the scenes, whether it's, you know, helping with social media, or some of our logistics, that sort of thing. You know, we're stoked to welcome new members. As a Canadian in general, one thing I always recommend is, is being informed about the seafood that you consume. So knowing where your seafood come comes from, making sure that it is, you know, certified as ocean wise, or by the Marine Stewardship Council. Even better if you can get your fish from a community supported fishery like Skipper autos in Vancouver, which still delivers actually to Alberta, I'm pretty sure. Oh, yeah, I'm so getting to know you know who your fisherman is, and where your seafood comes from, can be a really powerful way that you as a consumer can actually be a part of better ways to treat the ocean. So those are just a few Burt, do you have any other ideas?

Bourton Scott, Emerald Sea Protection Soceity:

Yeah, definitely get involved any and even outside of beach cleanups, just plastics in general and, and community involvement and in education, spreading, spreading the word. But you pretty much hit all those those points. Awesome. Allie, actually,

David Evans:

I'm one of the other episodes in this initial series of podcast episodes is focusing on food fraud in fish, fish mislabeling within Canada. And so it kind of speaks to your point about following those seafood verifications.

Ally Stocks, Emerald Sea Protection Society:

Oh, that's awesome. Good. I'm glad your your listeners will learn all about that. I'm very passionate about that as well.

David Evans:

Yes, I sent some samples off to the lifelab Center in wealth to be DNA tested to see if it actually is what it says on the package. So fingers crossed, we'll see what happens with those samples.

Ally Stocks, Emerald Sea Protection Society:

Amazing.

David Evans:

That's kind of all the questions I can think of right now for you guys. I'm so excited that we had this chance to talk where can people find out more about your work and follow what you guys do? And be able to support you guys.

Ally Stocks, Emerald Sea Protection Society:

Yeah, we are. You can go to our website, which is Emerald see society.ca. And we're on Facebook and Twitter and Instagram also all just Emerald see society? Yeah, and I think I think there's a donation button on our web page. So

Unknown:

check it out. I believe. Yep, top right.

David Evans:

top right, top right. You heard it here first, folks. Well, thank you so much Allie and burden for your time and the important work that you guys do. And is there anything else that you guys want to say before we we end this little segment?

Ally Stocks, Emerald Sea Protection Society:

Thank you so much for having us. It was great to chat. And yeah. If anyone has questions, we're always around and happy to answer them. And we're so excited. That you know, Canadians from across this, you know, beautiful great land can can get involved and stay interested in this kind of thing, even if you don't live right on the ocean.

David Evans:

Perfect. we're imagining it from Edmonton.

Bourton Scott, Emerald Sea Protection Soceity:

Cou dn't have said it better m

David Evans:

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe. Check the show notes. I'll leave some links to the Emerald sea protection society's website and other social media. Even just a couple days ago, they were pulling nets out of the ocean, posing some really cool photos, so highly recommend it, go check it out. Also, in the show notes, I'll leave some links to some of the repurpose gear that's built from old fishing gear. So definitely check out those cool companies as well. Thanks so much to Ally and Bourton for taking time out of their busy schedules. Cleaning up our oceans to speak with me Keep up the great work Emerald see protection society. And that's our show for today. Thank you so much for listening. Please subscribe so you don't miss any of our future episodes coming out. Leave us a rating and review. It means so much to us to hear back from all of our listeners. I'm the host and producer David Evans. And I would just like to thank the rest of the team from the aquatic biosphere project, specifically to Paula Polman, S phie Cervera, and Anna Bettini. hanks for all of your help. To earn more about the aquatic iosphere project and what we're oing here in Alberta telling he story of water. Check us out t aquaticbiosphere.ca. And if y u have any questions or c mments about the show, we'd l ve to hear them. Email us at c nservation@aquaticbiosp ere.org. Please don't forge to like subscribe and leave us a review. It really helps us out get excited for next onday when we release our next pisode, all about seawater desal nation. We talked to Heath r Cooley from the Pacific Insti ute about water stress. How m ny cities across the world are a tually about to run out of water and how seawater desal nation might be able to help. Thanks for listening to the w ter we doing podcast and until next time, it's been a splas